What constitutes rape?

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What constitutes rape?

Postby RagDoll » Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:54 pm

I know this is an odd question, but if someone has made it clear that they do not want to have sex with someone, but ended up having sex with that person when they were blind drunk (e.g. pretty much to the point where they were incapable of saying yes or no)... is that rape? I'm tempted to say no, but I'm not entirely sure and wondered what everyone else thought?
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Re: What constitutes rape?

Postby Skarlet » Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:58 pm

I think that if the person had said no, or is too drunk to give their consent, than it would be considered rape. I think a lot of people forget that although the use of drugs is well known, that most date rapes happen by the use of alcohol. Buying triples, and doubles instead of singles. http://www.thisisnotaninvitationtorapem ... /drinking/
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Re: What constitutes rape?

Postby RagDoll » Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:30 pm

Hmmm.. that's interesting.

The reason I ask is a few years ago, I had just started seeing someone (who eventually became my boyfriend) and I'd gone to his house to see him. He suggested we went to the pub with a few others and since I didn't live in the same town he lived in, I agreed to stay so I could have a drink, BUT I made it clear that I was not ready to have sex with him and that I didn't want him to think that my staying over meant I was giving it the all-clear for us to have sex. It was just so I didn't have to get a taxi back to mine by myself.

Anyway, we went out and although I will admit that I had a fair amount to drink, it seemed that one minute I was a bit drunk and merry and the next I was hammered. I don't actually remember a lot of that night, but I woke up in the morning in his bed and knew we'd had sex. I'm pretty sure I didn't say 'no' when he tried it on when we got back to his, but equally, I'd already told him earlier that day that I didn't want to. Plus, I was so so drunk.

When I got home, I went straight in the shower and noticed I had a fair few bruises on me and (sorry this is gross) one of my nipples had been very, very badly bitten and and was quite badly cut.

I always thought the whole situation was my own stupid fault for staying at his house and getting drunk etc... and I still do think I shouldn't have put myself in that situation, but the more I've thought about it, the more I think that I didn't really do anything wrong and he shouldn't have taken advantage of me like that. Plus, it seems odd that one minute I was ok, then all of a sudden the night was a complete blur - I don't even remember getting the injuries I had or even having sex with him really.
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Re: What constitutes rape?

Postby Skarlet » Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:40 pm

I have to say, if that happened to me, that I would consider that rape. Whether or not the law does is a different matter. But no you were taken advantage of you, and it probably was his plan all along. I don't think you should blame yourself for it, you trusted this guy, and had told him you were not up for sex.
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Re: What constitutes rape?

Postby Bel Bel » Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:09 pm

I'd say in this instance it was but I doubt you could prove it and the fact you then went on to have him as your b/f would suggest you didn't consider it a problem at the time
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Re: What constitutes rape?

Postby RagDoll » Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:13 pm

I'm not planning on taking it any further, so it doesn't matter if I can prove it or not, I just wanted to know whether people considered it rape.

I did consider it a problem at the time, but I blamed myself... I thought I'd just got too drunk and because I hadn't said no when it was happening I thought it was my own fault.
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Re: What constitutes rape?

Postby RagDoll » Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:16 pm

Also, it wasn't just that... I have morals and I felt like they'd been stipped away in what had happened. I think part of me felt that if we went out, it wouldn't have been just a horrible one-night stand, as that's not something I would ever normally do
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Re: What constitutes rape?

Postby Skarlet » Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:34 pm

Its a shame you felt that way, but don't beat yourself up over staying with him. Were you in a relationship for a long time? Either way, he treated you abominably.
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Re: What constitutes rape?

Postby snail » Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:02 pm

If the person's not capable of giving consent, either because they are intoxicated or because they are legally too young to know their own mind, then it's automatically rape.

Very hard to prove in these cases of course. Based on what you've said (mostly about the bruises) I also would consider this rape. Very few people would tolerate physical damage if fully consenting.
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Re: What constitutes rape?

Postby everloney » Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:11 pm

i think it does, i think if you do not want to do it and are pressured or forced into or so drunk you can't remember it. It counts, not in a court of law but it counts. I have argued with myself over this for years. It happened to me when i was 14 and i wasn't ready to have sex (I wasn't sleeping with my boyfriend at the time) but i said no and tried to fight but in the end i let it happen, even though i didn't want it (it was a friend from school). Sorry this isn't about me just stuff like this always makes me think, i guess because it stays with you for life...
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Re: What constitutes rape?

Postby captainf » Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:53 pm

Hmm do you think you were drugged in some way? I mean you mentioned numerous times being merry and then all of a sudden completely drunk and out of it.. so are you thinking that he may of drugged you to get you into bed?

What I am curious is - what happens if both people are completely drunk and neither can give, nor deny consent, but have sex - is that rape or not?
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Re: What constitutes rape?

Postby Skarlet » Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:19 pm

It would come down to if a complaint was made. There would then be a burden of proving that it was rape. Although there has been a change in the law, in most cases this scenario probably wouldn't reach court.
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Re: What constitutes rape?

Postby snail » Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:50 pm

I'd also imagine that if both parties were that drunk, not much could actually 'happen' anyway, physically-speaking.
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Re: What constitutes rape?

Postby RagDoll » Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:59 am

Skarlet, we weren't in a relationship for long.. needless to say he was NOT a nice person in the slightest. He cheated on me and there were issues with regards to sex after what happened... I couldn't bring myself to sleep with him when I was sober, I'd have to have a drink before I could face it (looking back, I have no idea why I was with him, think I wasn't in the best of places mentally).

Captain, I think there's a chance I was drugged, but I don't know for sure. As I said, I'm not going to lie and say I hadn't had a fair amount to drink, so I was a bit drunk, but what was odd was that I went from drunk, but still completely capable of holding a conversation etc. to completely wasted.

Re: your question about if both people are drunk and neither can give, nor deny consent, I don't really know. What I do know is that I had already made it clear earlier that day that I didn't want to have sex with him and he still went ahead knowing how I felt about the matter.
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Re: What constitutes rape?

Postby Skarlet » Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:28 am

I hoped that was the case as you shouldn't have wasted your time on such a loser. Its such an awful thing to happen, and it is no surprise you had issues sleeping with him. Thankfully you aren't in that relationship any more, and your new guy sounds a lot better for you.
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