Your rights to children

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Re: Your rights to children

Postby kerrie24 » Mon Jul 27, 2009 9:40 am

Yeah I agree too,my partner would have loved to spend more time with our kids as babies,and i think men should be entitled to more paternity leave than a measly 2 weeks!
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Re: Your rights to children

Postby dipsydoodlenoodle » Mon Jul 27, 2009 9:43 am

I agree with that as well Kerrie.
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Re: Your rights to children

Postby bellajennie » Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:38 am

Interesting topic!
I was drawn to it all because it brought me to the idea of same-sex couples having children.
I asked myself, as a female, whether I could give the job of carrying the child to my partner, and I don't think I could because I'd like to do it. Neither would I want to have 'one each' because I'd be so scared no matter how hard you tried you would compare each one. But then that is selfish of me to deny that to a partner. Furthermore, it may be selfish of me to bring a child into an 'abnormal' environment (not unlike the man who carried his children), but then I argue that plenty of children grow up with single parents, so surely two loving parents (whatever their sex) will be a bonus!
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Re: Your rights to children

Postby dipsydoodlenoodle » Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:03 am

In response to your theory on same sex parents bellajennie...I always figured an orphan would rather have 2 dads or 2 mams than none!
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Re: Your rights to children

Postby RagDoll » Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:43 am

Hmmm I do take the orphan point, but I'm not sure I agree that same sex couples should have children. I don't have any issue whatsoever with gay couples being together/living together etc., but I think it is a bit selfish when they have children.
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Re: Your rights to children

Postby rufio89 » Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:48 am

Ah I totally disagree, I think same-sex couples can make excellent parents, just as well as any other couple.

Actually, maybe better, often, because a lot of couples have kids by accident, whereas a gay couple obviously cant do that.
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Re: Your rights to children

Postby RagDoll » Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:52 am

I'm not saying they wouldn't technically make good parents - it's more them bringing a child up in an abnormal environment really and the consequences of that e.g. they might get bullied for it and so forth.
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Re: Your rights to children

Postby captainf » Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:43 pm

One of my relatives is gay. He had a wife before coming out though and had a son with her.
After realising he was gay he ended up with a guy who hes still with years on. His son chose to live with him and his partner and is completely happy.
It can work having same sex parents.
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Re: Your rights to children

Postby RagDoll » Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:53 pm

That's a bit different though as he had his child before he came out as being gay and his child had a choice to live with his Dad and his new partner. Obviously that was ok with him, but I don't know if it'd be ok for every child. I take your point though.
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Re: Your rights to children

Postby captainf » Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:00 pm

Yeah I get what you mean. Everyones circumstances are different. The lad lived with his dad from a young age but has never spoke of any problems and he does seem quite happy. Hes 16 now. I think its all down to the individual really - some people are pretty sensitive and could take offence easily whereas others can have a strong mind and insults are like water off of a ducks back for them.
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Re: Your rights to children

Postby bellajennie » Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:10 pm

It's a touchy subject I realise.
But kids get bullied for everything, regardless of whether they are 'perfect' or otherwise.
I guess the way I see it is that we are breeding a new generation of people, and when children are taught to be open-minded they generally are more accepting than adults.
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Re: Your rights to children

Postby Bel Bel » Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:57 pm

I'd like to believe it was as simple as that
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Re: Your rights to children

Postby bellajennie » Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:14 pm

You're right it's not as simple as that.
I'll be honest here and lay my cards down on the table, however selfish they may seem.
I'd love kids and a family, they'd be loved and have many benefits with a life I would hope to offer them. The selfish bit comes when I say I had a hard lot in life being gay myself so why should I be denied of something 'normal' people can have, when I never chose to be the way I am?!
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Re: Your rights to children

Postby snail » Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:28 pm

bellajennie wrote:I'll be honest here and lay my cards down on the table, however selfish they may seem.
I'd love kids and a family, they'd be loved and have many benefits with a life I would hope to offer them. The selfish bit comes when I say I had a hard lot in life being gay myself so why should I be denied of something 'normal' people can have, when I never chose to be the way I am?!


The role of children isn't to compensate you for the difficult things in your own life, though, Bella. I'm sorry, I know that sounds horribly harsh.

I have yet another perspective: I am dead against same-sex couples having children, because they are deliberately creating a child that will never know its biological mother or father. For example, a lesbian couple can use sperm donation - that's not too bad, but still, the resulting child will not know its natural father or any of its genetic heritage. I think everyone deserves to know where they came from. The situation is worse for gay male couples, which use surrogate mothers - the child knows it had a mother, who gave it away at birth. I think that's a terrible thing for someone to grow up knowing. I know that many heterosexual couplings result in a child that doesn't know it's father, or never sees its mother, but the difference is, that isn't a deliberate thing planned in advance, intentionally cheating a child of its natural rights.

I think gay couples should foster/adopt if they want children and neither partner already has them. That way, everyone wins - the couple get to be parents and the children get a loving home. It also avoids the problem of whose egg/sperm is used - rather than one partner having no genetic link to the child and another being its biological parent, neither partner is its biological parent.
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Re: Your rights to children

Postby bellajennie » Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:23 pm

I'm not saying a child would compensate for difficult things, I just don't see why I shouldn't be allowed to have children because there are plenty of other people who make worse jobs of their lives than me who have that privilege.

And as for what has been said about same sex couples and children not knowing their biological parents, there are plenty more cases out there of children conceived in less than desirable circumstances who don't know them either. I'm not saying Jeremy Kyle is representative of the whole population but he must make a fortune off dna tests! In any case, I don't say how people can say that same-sex couples aren't fit parents, when look at the rest of the world and their mistakes. I don't mean to sound harsh but how do all these children come to need fostering in the first place? Are they lacking good parents because they were planned into a loving relationship by two parents (albeit of the same sex) who knew they had the time and money to give them a good life (because lets face it, getting a sperm donation is a massive investment financially)? I don't think so.

I'm not trying to sound like some irate mad woman here, I just feel passionately about it, same as other people do in contrast I guess!
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