Fox hunting and other blood sports

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Hunting

Hunting to be banned
20
91%
Hunting to stay
2
9%
Undecided
0
No votes
Not bothered
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 22

hunting

Postby bobbyt » Sat Apr 24, 2004 10:11 pm

Hiya,

Yeah I understand what you're saying, shooting them is almost certainly the most effective way. Though what do you mean a rifle won't kill a fox? Course it will! A .222 rifle is probably the best over slightly longer distances, whereas shotguns are better over shorter distances (ie. under 50 or 60 yards).

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Postby Fidel » Sat Apr 24, 2004 11:14 pm

Would an uzi do it?
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Postby depman » Sat Apr 24, 2004 11:25 pm

Fidel wrote:77.5% of statistics are made up - even that one (76.5%)


Well said fidel =D>

Its obvious in what you put Bobbyt that you regard some animals like foxes nothing and rubbish

well what you wrote is the same
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Postby Fidel » Sat Apr 24, 2004 11:33 pm

I haven't said much on this topic but I think animals are wonderful gifts of the earth and we have no right to kill them for fun/sport.
Foxes may be pests but they don't inhumanely kill each other, fight wars and no-ne said that it's our right to denounce their behaviour. People think the earth is theirs to rule as they please but in line with the seal-hunting thing - the food chain comes into play. Seals eat fish...so what? we eat animals and our nourishment is not the only thing that needs to be preserved
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Re: hunting

Postby depman » Sat Apr 24, 2004 11:35 pm

bobbyt wrote:Hiya everyone.

.

I urge everyone who's written on here to attempt to find either a huntsman, or at least a gamekeeper, and ask if you can spend some time with them to enable them to show you the problems which vermin such as foxes cause. This is the only way you will be able to fully understand the countryside,
bobbyt


This was laughable
I need to hang out with a hunter to understand the countryside

Bobbyt I have been all around this country and all over scotland and driven all over spain
I know how to appreciate the countryside in a proper way you are suggesting like listening to the birds sing and fly with freedom

To hang out with a hunter would be to hang out with scum
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Postby Fidel » Sat Apr 24, 2004 11:37 pm

Foxes are much more gentle and humane. To kill another being whether it be human or animal for fun is grotesque
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Postby daveshow » Sun Apr 25, 2004 1:12 am

my uncles a gamekeeper and he gave my mum a foxes tail to use as a feather duster :D
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Postby Llisa » Sun Apr 25, 2004 2:04 am

Lol, that's funny.

There are thousands of other animals besides foxes that are mistreated and killed every single day. Some take MUCH longer to die then that aformentioned furry critters. Its too bad, but they're the facts.
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hiya

Postby bobbyt » Sun Apr 25, 2004 8:29 am

Hiya,

No, what I said about the statistics being made up was completely true. The 'lacs' has been reprimanded by the advertising standards agency for giving misleading information.

I'm not making it up, it just goes to show that they will try any underhanded trick to get their point across.

What I meant about hangin out with a hunter etc, was that so they can enable you to see the damage that vermin does.

Sorry, I'm not writing these things to try and fall out with people or to deliberately contradict people, these are just my opinions on the subject.

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Postby sovs » Sun Apr 25, 2004 6:59 pm

Everyone on here has a right to put their opinion forward and it doesnt change anyones view of the person writing it.
Just put what you feel as long as it doesnt start arguements :wink:
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Postby depman » Sun Apr 25, 2004 9:08 pm

To laugh at a foxes tail being used as a duster is sick

I am very opinionated on this subject and will not stop at people that support hunting animal cruelty or say that certain animals are vermin and are in the way of humans I will be very strong with my words

It does not mean I hate that person/user for a different opinion to me as everyone is entitled to their opinion including me :wink:
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Postby worstfriend » Mon Apr 26, 2004 1:58 pm

Wow, Depman.

I haven't been on for a while, but i think maybe you should actually read my post. I totally disagree with fox-hunting.

My pre-amble about foxes hunting techniques (which you should really CHECK is untrue before making such ill-informed comments about, foxes are notorious killers, that IS why farmers don't like them) was supposed to enable people reading the thread to understand a little better why people want to cut down fox numbers in the first place.

A few hundred years ago fox numbers were naturally controlled by European Wolves who competed for the same prey and territory. Wolves are now extinct due to excessive hunting and farmer paranoia in the UK and thus fox populations can become too large.

For someone with such strong opinions on this you seem very uninformed to me. Do you not see that the damage to farm animals is just the beginning with over-population? If you let foxes breed out of control there won't be enough food for the foxes and they will slowly starve to death en mass. That is why there is an annual deer cull in the Highlands of Scotland - because the only other option is to allow thousands of young deer who haven't gained sufficient weight in their short years to make it through the winter die slowly of starvation - how humane is it to let that happen??

Now it is a lovely romantic idea to think man and beast can live side by side, but that would work only if we were hunter/gatherers, which, with our current population level, is impossible, and even then, we would have to kill off the carnivores as they represent competition for food. People have to scrape a living from farming in this country because the so-called "free-market" has crushed all but the biggest operations. Farming is not an easy living, and controlling the populations of animals which must be forced to share the land which is farmed is, i'm afraid, part of the job.

For all of you who say foxes are humane, i challenge you to find a chicken killed "humanely" (something of which a fox is incapable as it is a fox, not a human) and actually LOOK at what they do. They tear throats out, bite heads off, crush skulls. They are just creatures like all the other creatures. As glorious in their own perfection yes, but they're no more sacred than the cow you put on the table on Sunday lunchtimes.

Now, I TOTALLY DISAGREE WITH FOX-HUNTING, but i think it is a particularly rose-tinted view of the countryside which makes people think that all animals should be allowed to breed at random until their numbers have reached the point that massive populations are enduring starvation.

I trust Depman that with principles such as yours you are a full-vegan who eats only bio-dynamic foods, as that is the only way in the western world that one can live without compromising the life of one animal or another. I would also suggest that driving through the countryside is not as illuminating as living in it. I lived on a small-holding for five years and while fencing is great for keeping foxes out, it isn't perfect. Hens need to scrape around, so you can't have a wire bottom on your coop, and if the fox digs in, the hens, all nice and safe in their wire cage, can't get out and are doomed. Your Mum is very lucky if she has not yet suffered a fox attack in her chicken pens.

I do see why you think that the duster is nasty, but at the same time, many hunters drape a fox's body over the deer fencing to rot, to put off other foxes, at least that fox was used for something....

My personal opinion is that, for around a million years, man has hunted and used nature to his gain, and there is nothing too wrong with that in itself. You can balance respect in there. I would rather know that an animal died and it's fur, meat, bones and anything else was used, than it dies and was buried, burned or just left to rot. Killing a fox which has been breaking into your pens and murdering your hens is one thing, murdering one you've never seen before, just for fun, is not acceptable.

I find intensive farming methods far more disgusting than game-keeping. I would rather be a fox who lived free and was trapped or shot than a pig that lived it's whole life in a concrete cell so small it couldn't even turn around to lick it's young.

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Postby saz » Mon Apr 26, 2004 4:29 pm

I think it is the fact that people make fox hunting into such a glamourous upmarket sport that gets people going, and perhaps not the fact that foxes have to be culled for farming reasons.

We do have to accept at some point that animals just do what animals do, it is nature for them to kill and farms are havens for hungry foxes. We eat the hens (and eggs) and so do they. But on the other hand they are a threat to livestock and are perhaps out of control in numbers. It is a hard discussion and i would say that i dont agree with fox hunting because of the way it is conducted but i am not sure about the culling of them in general.

Dont quote me on this but i have heard that there is discussion of a programme to re-introduce the wolves to this country which may or may not be a good thing. We also have lots of big cats roaming the countryside apparently, so maybe they are eating some foxes along the way!

Isn't most of the reason that fox hunting started is that it is way too hard to shoot a fox with a gun? I gathered that they were too quick and small to effectively shoot.

At the end of the day you are never going to win, animals are going to be killed and/or eaten somehow, either by us or other animals. I just dont like seeing people take pleasure in killing anything.
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Postby depman » Mon Apr 26, 2004 6:20 pm

Humans are just plain ignorant at the end of the day to the world and the way they treat it including the way they treat animals

We should have no right to cull animals
Leave nature how it is or it will destroy you

And like I said already I respect the countryside and ive lived in it all my life
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Postby worstfriend » Tue Apr 27, 2004 12:39 pm

But then do you not see that if populations aren't controlled then the animals starve to death in winter when there isn't enough food to go round??
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