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PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 9:59 am
by Tarantula
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Re: New guy problems

PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 10:47 am
by snail
I can understand why he does reply to his ex's texts like he does. He does owe her some courtesy - she was his wife. Yes, she cheated, but there was probably some joint input into that situation, and anyway it was just one part of their relationship (albeit the final part). She was also the person he committed to for the rest of his life and went through a wedding with. She was the person he lived with, through ups and downs, summer and winter, sickness and health, holidays and work, good times and bad, for seven years. She was there every night and every day. That is a huge deal, and it doesn't just go away. For the sake of what they had, he wants to be civil, he doesn't want any further pain and he doesn't want to have to worry about being possibly petty or childish. And there isn't really any contradiction between being all 'Buddha' about it most of the time but crying sometimes - no one can keep their emotions 100% the same about such a thing as that. It's like a bereavement.

The dinner was a bad call, but a dinner in that situation isn't quite what it seems from the outside - they were married, they had thousands of meals together. It's a mundane thing to them, a way of killing two birds with one stone.

It's a shame that you came into his life now, instead of a year or so after they had split when all the emotional loose ends were tied up, but it didn't happen that way, so you will have to deal with what you've got. He will still be grieving for what happened on some level, but that doesn't mean he isn't committed to you now. Support him in his grieving, by letting him grieve in any way he wants (within reason). You obviously have to have a line that he can't cross with her (dinner seems a good place to draw it) but beyond that try to be chilled about it. It was his marriage, not yours - let him say what the right way to deal with it is.

And I don't think it has to follow that when you're in a bad place you will only attract bad people. Yes, it's much more likely I agree, but it's not a given. Don't be so polar - things don't have to be all one way or all the other way. Chance plays a large part. Enjoy what you have and enjoy your Christmas.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 11:31 am
by Tarantula

Re: New guy problems

PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 11:55 am
by Mrconfused74
Quite simply going through a divorce is never easy, and sometimes it's better to be polite and kind so that the split is as amicable as possible! It's not about feelings it's about getting what is his. If he told her staticky away he was seeing you this could affected the divorce she could say he must have been seeing you while they were together drawing out the proceedings and making things even more awkward. As it is he's playing along and his comment about 'thought you should know ' seems to come out of anger than just a throw away comment. What he does need from you is support, so be there for him. Not questioning his motives. We all have history it's just unfortunate you are caught up in his! But you are now his future and hopefully with what has happened to him will make him more attentive in your relationship. Enjoy it be happy and try not to worry, have a very merry Christmas x

Re: New guy problems

PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 12:35 pm
by snail
Tarantula wrote:I do feel, to be buttock-clenchingly honest with you, that I can never be that special by comparison, because they'll always have that history together - unless I stay with him for longer than eight years. Yeah I know it's not about quantity. But I'm a stranger, and he is grieving over somebody else, and I find it difficult now that I'm developing strong feelings. In the beginning, I couldn't care less about his circumstances so long as he's single and we're enjoying each other's company, but now... I can't help but feel I'm in somebody else's shadow, sleeping in their bed, screwing their husband! It's weird, I guess it just needs time.

Yes I understand - as you can imagine, by the time you get to my age, you have experienced that more than once. It is the same for everyone. The house I currently share with my partner, he has had two other long term (many years) partners in. I feel their shadow sometimes - often in the early days. It's not nice. But it is just time. Turn it into another reason to make it work - don't drop the ball like the other woman did. She was stupid, and as a result you have this fantastic man that she let slip.

Re: New guy problems

PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 12:58 pm
by David020549
It's good to hear that you have a new relationship that has lasted for quite a few months, now for the making it last long term part. This fear of abandonment you have will quite likely never go away however loyal your partner is so it is very important that he knows why.
If BPD is the reason that your emotions are changeable you both need to accept that and both make allowances, so talk it through with him. Treat it in just the same way as any other illness, he has just had cancer treatment, maybe he will need support in the future, be there for him.

Have a Merry Christmas and a very Happy New Year

Re: New guy problems

PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 5:37 pm
by Tarantula
Thank you guys!

After my last post I saw him and told him the part I find hard to admit, that I feel like our memories will always be second to theirs. He, for the umpteenth time, reassured me that he is totally clear on the breakup and he even says he wishes he met me first. He says he feels 'branded' because of his status, and that's exactly how I would feel and, sadly, I think that's how it IS, as a divorce represents 'baggage' and makes it a less palatable situation to go into if you've never been married, as I haven't.

But he simply treats me so well, that none of that matters to me on face value; but I want to be the special one, dangit! I want to be the person he builds an even better 8+ years with. I don't want to just be some girl he met and had a thing with after his wife. He doesn't treat me like that at all. He treats me like I'm absolutely the priority in his life. That's why he delayed his flight home for Christmas, for me. And can't wait to introduce me to his parents (!) next week in Austria.

He knows all about me and my background and he's simply splendid about that as well. He's so compassionate, he got emotional when he found out. He's read all my writing about it and totally supports the way I want to help others (for those who don't know; I was sexually abused as a kid, by my father.) I feel he's quickly become my biggest fan.

Huff. I should have met him first. Then again, it would not have worked as he is 12 years older than me and I'm just about of an age where it's not totally weird (I'm nearly 25).

Re: New guy problems

PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 9:40 pm
by Minna
Yes, Tarantula, in a perfect world you should have met him earlier. But you have him now. He sounds a lovely, kind, thoughtful man. That is why you love him and that is why he is treating his soon to be ex-wife with courtesy. He can't help it - its the way he's made. I personally would not be worried about them meeting over dinner to talk divorce. As another replier says, this would be something they had done lots of times before, during their marriage, so it would be very matter of fact for them. Don't read anything into it.

I think the one thing that may jar with you should (hopefully) your relationship continue is how different you and your boyfriend would act in any particular situation where push comes to shove.

I suspect that you are very 'upfront' if anything needs to be said and that you don't suffer fools gladly, don't take things lying down, and take the bull by the horns when necessary (all not meant in a negative way and forgive the sayings!).

Your lovely boyfriend, in contrast, is tolerant, easy going and slow to anger. Which is OK and even to be respected in many situations, but could be very irritating to you if you feel he should 'kick ass' and not be complacent (his dealings with his soon to be ex-wife are a good example).

So, I would say that if you enjoy the kind, caring love of this man, then you must also accept what you see as his down side - i.e. in YOUR eyes he can be a bit of a 'wimp'. I'm afraid you can't have it both ways. The nature of his being means that he will be 'OK' in his dealings with his soon to be ex-wife. Its in his very bones, he can't behave any other way. It does not mean that he is any less of a man, or that he was anything but broken by the callousness of her behaviour towards him.

Would he go back to her should she start trying it on with him again? Unfortunately nothing is certain in this life, but I don't think he would. Although he may not give vent to his feelings in the way you would in that same situation (its not his way), he must have been very deeply hurt by this woman and, although he will remain polite to her, he will never, ever forgive her.

You have been blessed with finding such a lovely man. Realise your good fortune and try to relax - don't let mad thoughts buzz through your head. Do you perhaps think that you couldn't possibly be good enough to find such a man, so you worry that you don't deserve him and something will raise it's ugly head (ex-wife?) to spoil things?

Tarantula, you deserve happiness, just like anyone else - and I think you, and your man, have found it. Relax and be happy. xx

Good luck in the future.
You are, and you have.

Re: New guy problems

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 10:38 am
by Tarantula
Hi Minna

What a thoughtful and well-written response, thank you.

Well, update:

Everything was fine and we had a wonderful new year's together etc, no further issue. But last night it all occurred again, like a chronic rash, flaring up in my mind.

He is petitioning for divorce. He originally said that he would do it on grounds of adultery (you must choose a category), rather than 'unreasonable behaviour', as the fact of the matter is, although there are many reasons for the marriage failing, ultimately they're divorcing because she cheated.

But then she said she wanted it done under unreasonable behaviour, and now it's being done under unreasonable behaviour.

Oh, the frustration. She doesn't want it to be on her public record that she cheated. It doesn't look nice. She's told him she'll fully co operate under UB, and hasn't commented what she'll do in the alternative. He's concerned, with no researched basis that I'm aware of, that he might be liable to pay her money if she wants to really go to town on this. He doesn't want to risk it. So he bent over quicker than the British gymnastics champion after ten red bulls and two ecstasy pills.

You can sense my indignation. It's not enough that she cheated, multiple times, putting him through hell for a year. It's not enough that she has the audacity to try and justify those actions and even turn the blame around on him. Now even the divorce itself has to be entirely on her terms?! Whaaaaat?!?!

I did a brief online search and from what I understand, adultery, if contested (and she hasn't said she WOULD even contest), needs to be proven. Even I've seen texts on his phone amounting to a full admittance (the bit where she tried to say it was 'only two guys' - lol), let alone whatever else he may have kept hold of. I think that, firstly, there's a good chance she'd co operate even on adultery grounds because she also has an invested interest in things getting done quickly, and maybe even more so, as she'll have family pressure to remarry. Secondly, even if she did contest it, there's easy proof. What's his attitude? He wants everything to be friendly and smiley and smooth - with no reason to suspect that things would be less smooth, time wise or expense wise, if he stands by the truth.

I just can't stand beside it, it's driving me mad. It was bad enough, the previous stuff, the dinner with her, the not mentioning me part, etc - now this. This is just the start of the process. I can see that he'll allow himself to be bullied pillar to post, and tell himself (and me) that he just wants it over ASAP when I think he's just burying his head in the sand, an attitude which surely contributed to how she had the nerve to cheat on him in the first place.

It comes down to respect, and I've told him, I can't respect his choice on this, it's gonna affect how I see him. Catering to your selfish, cheating, self-entitled brat of an ex is not a sexy look for a man to have! And I don't tell him that to try and pressure him to do what I want him to do. I'm telling him because I think it's important to be honest and upfront about these things - about how I KNOW this is gonna make me feel, how it's gonna affect things going forward - rather than, I just don't say anything, respect leaves the building, I casually start taking him for granted, the whole level drops, he don't know what's up, I'm not communicating, we're on the drift, across months and months, and eventually we split... or, if I was his ex, I go to the bar and drink up the ego feed of other men on his time, 'cause hey he's a softy he's asking for it, right? Wrong. But I bet that was her mentality. Just like how scantily women on a night out are 'asking for it'. That whole thing. Anyway.

I totally get why he thinks I'm making demands. It sure looks like that, don't it? But as I told him, I'm just stating the weather forecast. If the weather man says matter-of-fact it's gonna rain, is he demanding that you take an umbrella? No. He's simply stating the facts, for you to do as you like, with that information. Possibly the next person wouldn't even be able to identify why they've just lost interest sexually. Or if they did identify it, wouldn't say it because it sounds unsavoury and makes them look like the bad guy.

My bf has made it clear that he won't factor my feelings in at all to how he handles his divorce. He's gone on the anti with me, demonstrating the kind of Scarface-to-Rambo pow-pow gun-slinging attitude I only wish he'd have with his ex - y'know, the one who's actually done him over, rather than me, the relative stranger with genuinely good intentions. I'm praying for a barrel of testosterone (better make it a lorry) to somehow find its way into his breakfast cereal, so that he arrives at the conclusion that maybe giving into his ex's veiled threats or my-way-or-highway approach isn't necessary or congruent with the truth, particularly when all the cards are in HIS favour, not hers. I'm not sure what she can do about it if he upholds his original assertion to stand by the truth. He's not sure either, and has said he doesn't think she's SO bad to try and push for some monetary outcome - there's no kids or assets involved, so I'm not sure what's even in jeopardy here (other than his testicle factor). When I push for an explanation as to why he's changed his mind from course A to course B, if it isn't merely because she said so, he says he won't justify it as it's none of my business. Well that's convenient. Pushed into a corner? Forced to face those difficult questions? Then why not play the tired, arbitrary and entirely pointless card of, 'it's not your business.'

Well, it is my business. It's my time and my flipping emotional investment; I don't wanna spend it with someone who don't stick to his guns when the situation calls for it. Honestly, he's spent more time criticising me for saying where I stand, than criticising her for her appalling behaviour and tactics. She's really done a number on him and I guess it's easy to blame the new guy and stick to what's familiar. But as I say, I can't respect it. And I feel hurt that instead of trying to understand where I'm coming from, he's more interested in making me feel quite alienated with his comments ('you need to stay out of the process', 'I'm not going to let you get in the way'). Get in the way of what, exactly? Your cosy divorce proceedings with the ex who shagged somebody else? That's right. You tell 'em, boy. You tell Big Bad Tarantula where to go. How resilient. Thug life

It's clear that our personalities clash on this subject, and for me, it's a really important one. I could stay with him, because he's a wonderful person (if somewhat pompous when pushed into a corner - like so many are) who treats me very well... but I'll always know deep down that, in my opinion, he ain't got the minerals. This is such a deep turn off for me. It makes me see him as more of a friend than a partner, my man, my rock, my guy in the leather jacket brapping up outside my window on a Harley and shouting at my window 'hey girl - we're going out!' and driving me around the town. Actually, that was basically my ex - and let's not go there. It's like I've pendulum my way from the inherently strong-willed, take-no-prisoners, Al-Pacino-approved but emotionally unavailable end of the spectrum.... to the nicey nice, genuinely kind, decent pushovers of the man world. I don't know how to not see my BF in this way when he insists on accommodating his ex's every request. At least if he could ADMIT that 'yeah I am being too soft with her, but this is how I'm used to being and this is who I am' - that would be something - but the way he tries to pass it off as the genuinely most favourable option, to roll over when she offers a biscuit - I just can't buy it. Or, if he'd sang the same tune throughout - but HE put his foot down initially with her, saying look, it's going under adultery, because that's what it is, that's that - and then she whined a bit and he caved. I need to understand why. But he isn't helping me to understand. So I dunno what else to think.

And I know there will always be compromises, on that spectrum, where a guy is either too egotistic, but strong, or too selfless, but kind. This guy is a very kind, loving sort of person. But I'd gladly compromise on about 20% of all that - off the top of his nice-person cake - and put it between his legs. Then we're talkin'.

We've acknowledged each other's points of view and recognised the almighty clash; I just left his rather coldly but cleanly and I'm not going to work today because I haven't slept - wheeeee! I don't know what's going to happen next. I need to understand the real reasons why he's changed his original course of action. I need him to not try and fob me off that it's insignificant or he's doing it just for convenience; were that the case, he would've done things her way to begin with. But he started off defending the truth situation. Now he's changed. I need to understand why, as it factors in to how I can't help but see him.

He reinforced that he thinks it was a bad idea for me to be involved. That hurt. So I replied that maybe it was a bad idea for me to GET involved to begin with, given that he's going through a divorce. So I dunno, what's gonna happen next. I feel quite hurt.

Re: New guy problems

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:32 am
by rufio89
I know this isnt what you want to hear, but honestly I'm on his side on this one. Divorce is messy, can be complicated and expensive. Snail posted a good response to the earlier part of this topic a while ago and I think a lot of that still rings true here.

He obviously cares about you a great deal, it really sounds like he's trying to get things tidied up with his ex as quickly and cleanly as possible - and if filing under the terms she wants is the way to make it quicker and cleaner, then I think that's the right thing to do.

I do understand that this must be a very difficult situation for you, but I really think you need to take a step back when it comes to matters of his ex and just let him deal with it in the way he needs to - providing, of course, that he's being honest with you.

Re: New guy problems

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:14 pm
by Tarantula
I don't think he IS being honest though, that's the problem. He's just assuming it's quicker and easier to do it her way, when I ask why he thinks that, he shuts me down. So it's like... I have no choice but to conclude what all the evidence is pointing to. He's letting her bully him around because he's still invested in her. I can't matter too much if he's putting his need for amicability with her above all else no matter what. He doesn't even see where I'm coming from, which is unusual for him, and seems to prefer to make me out to be bad guy when I believe he's doing himself a disservice, by catering to her every time. He shouldn't just back down without even properly looking into it.

Re: New guy problems

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 6:00 pm
by Mrconfused74
Sounds like he's just doing whatever it is she wants to get it over with! If he contested everything it could drag on an on, when all he and you want is it over with so you can move on together without the ex looming over you. Yes he might be nice to her but that doesn't mean anything if he's doing it just to get it over with.

Re: New guy problems

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:03 pm
by Tarantula
It's all okay now :) thank you all for your advice.

I think in the end I gotta accept that nobody's perfect and stop being so hard on everyone (and myself). It doesn't mean what I thought it meant. He's reassured me to the max that he's totally committed to me and can't wait for this divorce to go through (it's early days for us, but the implication is there... actually we've talked about moving in together!). And uh yeah, he's basically said he hopes to grow old with me.

Can't ask for more than that really can I.

Re: New guy problems

PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:26 am
by Tarantula

everything is amazing now!! Thank God I didn't do anything rash.

Re: New guy problems

PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:54 am
by snail
That's good news :) I think it's the right thing.

Now stop staying up so late posting on PP :P