6 Months before Marriage, constant arguing, feel lost...

[HelpDave]

Hi Everyone,

How do I start... Please read the following and make comments on the situation.

Just a little info... I work full time, have supported us fully for the last 12 years, my partner has been in and out of part time work since we meet, she has had her job now for a few years working a few days a week. I sort all finances out mortgage, insurance, bills etc... My partner doesn't need to worry about it I take care of it all.

My parents are excellent never any issues can always count on them.

Her parents, well her dad is a control freak, her mam is nice but is only with her dad because they have a business together. My partner has a good relationship with her mam but with her dad it's not so good, well no one really gets on with him.


I like to think I'm a very laid back person, I've never bring work issues home or stress about things, I'm very hands on, I like to do my fair share around the house, sort the cars out maintenance etc... I'm not a control freak my partner can do whatever she wants to do, so can I but sometimes she can moan.

Last year in Summer, me and my fiancée (wedding was booked at this time) had our worst wobble to date. Our wedding had been booked for about 6 months at the time and planning for it was in early stages. I guess the "wobble" started for me when I didn't feel my partner was listening to me about certain aspects of the wedding & finances, we had just sorted out new mortgage deal which required an upfront payment of £5k not really an issue but I had pre warned my partner that we wouldn't get a holiday this year because of the wedding (we are paying for it all), mortgage and honeymoon all needing sorting. She was upset but understood at the time... Then little by little she would drop hints at a holiday, I reminded her about what we had said and it would stop there. But this kept happening & then she started talking about the honeymoon at the same time, the honeymoon she wanted was totally out of the question & beyond our financial limits, I'm talking about a honeymoon costing more than the wedding itself! This is where arguments started to happen because she was relentless with her wanting an extravagant honeymoon and a holiday, so this was basically the goings on for the next couple of months leading up to summer, in the end I gave in and said yes we'll go on holiday because there was just no talking to her & I was fed up of explaining it over and over again...

So basically we went away but we weren't in a good place, the holiday was the worst 1 I had been on because of how we were with each other, arguing, bickering etc...

We came back and things didn't improve, we grew distant still arguing till 2-3am in the morning and in the end I said I had had enough and I wanted to break up, she was devastated and wanted a break so I could think about things. Which I did, I had so much to think about, what would she do, how would she cope financially, her dads not very supportive, her mams under her dads thumb, did I still love her...

After a few weeks I decided to give it another go, we talked and said what changes we wanted from the one another, I feel I have tried hard with these changes, more affection, going out together more etc... I did/have been doing this. I asked if she could be a bit more appreciative towards me, listen/understand a bit more & sometimes it's nice for the man to have affection coming back the other way... so we said we would see how we go before deciding on the wedding, but I knew deep down if we didn't get married it would cause problems... We had a good couple of months & decided to stick to the plan of getting married. Now not long after and things started to get bad again, arguing over nothing, really bad arguments, the past would get brought up, I know I've made the changes she's wanted because she's told people I have, but in arguments I would say I've done what you asked what have you done but she would say summer was all my fault and that I was the one who need to show her more changes, she would say I'm not the one who wanted to break up, so you need to show me.

It's been going on like this up until now... 6 months out from our wedding and I feel like a lost person, confused and drained of it all... I don't know what else to do... I'm trying my best, our plans where to get married have kids but I don't know how we will even manage with kids if we can't manage each other! I don't want to think of kids as a solution to our problems or get married and then divorced 6 months later...

[David020549]

It is often a girls dream to have a fancy wedding and a exotic honeymoon without thought of the cost, parents pay for the wedding, husband pays for the honeymoon and she will live happily ever after - that's the dream.

Trying to pay for all that on your own as well as buy a house is a big ask and couples usually scrimp and save for years and even then put off the exotic holiday for a year or two, only the lucky ones have parents pick up the cost. The disputes you have had are basically over money, that is a really bad sign because successful couples need to have common values, they need to be happy that each are earning and spending fairly. Couples who live together long term, waiting until " the perfect time" to get married are taking a big risk of growing apart rather than growing together, if you love each other after 2 or 3 years together, get married regardless of money and spend what you can afford. Think about your own employment do you have a job with promotion prospects, maybe you are self employed and have cyclical earnings, or maybe a business with capital assets and are being a bit mean with your private spending ( that happens a lot ).

If your girlfriend is thinking about children she is going to have limited, if any earning capacity so you are going to pick up the bills, realistically are you going to be able to lead a lifestyle that she will be happy with. The disputes have also been about changing each other's behavior, scoring points off each other in an argument is not the way forward regardless of who started it and I understand your caution.

All I can suggest is that you both sit down and put all your respective income and expenditure on the table, then calculate the cost of kids, it's not going to be easy but if you are still speaking at the end of the evening that's a good sign.

[Tarantula]

I feel we are missing the elephant in the room here.

WHY ARE YOU PAYING FOR EVERYTHING?! This ain't the 50's, why she don't move her butt and pay her share? Why is she so entitled, she just EXPECTS you to pay HER way?

That's not on.

What also really hit me was the part where you said 'wanted a break so I could think about things. Which I did, I had so much to think about, what would she do, how would she cope financially, her dads not very supportive, her mams under her dads thumb, did I still love her...'

Apart from the last part, ALL of that is all about HER, not YOU, your feelings, your needs, your desires.... she's got you catering to her completely - why is this? All of your concerns for her... they are HER responsibility, NOT yours! She's an adult! Is this one of those relationships that more resemble a parent/child dynamic rather than equal partners putting in a mutual amount of effort into the relationship?

She needs to get off her high horse and, if you are going to financially provide for her which is a BIG thing, she should definitely be appreciating that in a big way, by being loving/affectionate towards you, and otherwise putting something in to the relationship. Sounds like she's just taking you for granted really.

Marriage doesn't sound like a good idea at this point. You need to re evaluate things. What's good about this person? How compatible are you - from a logical perspective? Are you in this for the right reasons or was the initial hook largely physical and then it just kind of carried on because you both felt like being in a relationship of some description? You haven't painted a great picture of your partner/relationship, so I wonder if you've given us a one-sided account or if it really IS as black and white as that.

It is indeed often a girl's dream to have the ultimate wedding/honeymoon/happy ending. Somewhere along the line, however, we grow up and expand our ideas about how a mature, mutual relationship should be, and it is no longer limited to prescriptive Disney logic revolving around an outdated religious institution which in the end is nothing more than a symbol that guarantees nothing (although it's nice if it works out).

[snail]

I feel we are missing the elephant in the room here.

WHY ARE YOU PAYING FOR EVERYTHING?! This ain't the 50's, why she don't move her butt and pay her share? Why is she so entitled, she just EXPECTS you to pay HER way?

That's not on.

What also really hit me was the part where you said 'wanted a break so I could think about things. Which I did, I had so much to think about, what would she do, how would she cope financially, her dads not very supportive, her mams under her dads thumb, did I still love her...'

Apart from the last part, ALL of that is all about HER, not YOU, your feelings, your needs, your desires.... she's got you catering to her completely - why is this? All of your concerns for her... they are HER responsibility, NOT yours! She's an adult! Is this one of those relationships that more resemble a parent/child dynamic rather than equal partners putting in a mutual amount of effort into the relationship?

She needs to get off her high horse and, if you are going to financially provide for her which is a BIG thing, she should definitely be appreciating that in a big way, by being loving/affectionate towards you, and otherwise putting something in to the relationship. Sounds like she's just taking you for granted really.

Marriage doesn't sound like a good idea at this point. You need to re evaluate things. What's good about this person? How compatible are you - from a logical perspective? Are you in this for the right reasons or was the initial hook largely physical and then it just kind of carried on because you both felt like being in a relationship of some description? You haven't painted a great picture of your partner/relationship, so I wonder if you've given us a one-sided account or if it really IS as black and white as that.

It is indeed often a girl's dream to have the ultimate wedding/honeymoon/happy ending. Somewhere along the line, however, we grow up and expand our ideas about how a mature, mutual relationship should be, and it is no longer limited to prescriptive Disney logic revolving around an outdated religious institution which in the end is nothing more than a symbol that guarantees nothing (although it's nice if it works out).

I have to say I thought exactly the same as this when I read your post.

[HelpDave]

Thank you for your messages, I'll try to expand maybe help with some of your questions.

We have lived together for a long time, about 12 years... We have been engaged for about 8 years. I am employed and have a fairly decent job if OT is there to be worked I will work whatever I can. Since we lived together the first thing I did was say we should have a joint account because there is no way she could afford anything, so all our money goes into a big pot (80/20)and we both have access to it, I am a believer that living together should mean you both have the same quality of life I don't really see the point in people living together and having separate accounts & bills especially when you can have 2 people at different ends of the spectrum in regard to wages, I would hate to think someone was struggling while I was living it up. So following on from that there is no private spending strictness, within reason we generally get whatever it is we want... New cloths, going out for meals, going out with friends etc...

I have tried to build our lives for the last few years around the plan to have kids so I have taken into account the decrease in income etc... Saving for that part now so we are still comfortable.

Obviously there is 2 sides to every story and I'm sure it will be slightly different from her.

Our relationship has had its ups & downs as do most, it's just been since well nearly a year ago now we just don't seem to click... I suppose I do feel like a parent sometimes, I don't want to sound like I'm undermining my partner but I know she wouldn't even know where to start with bills etc... As I've already mentioned everything and I mean everything is organised by me, I don't mind but it's nice to feel appreciated sometimes.

I am also mindful of the relationship she has with her dad well both parents because her mam only does what she's told to do by her dad. So this does play on my mind. I do find it hard sometimes to think what more I can do...

[David020549]

You sound awfully like her dad - taking the lead and she sounds just like her mum - happy follow, up to a point.
You are now both in your 30s you are content enough, she is frustrated because even after 12 years she has no security, you could break up tomorrow she has nothing, no family, no relationship, no money. From her point of view she has been your companion and lover for all that time and still has not got what she wants, she is not carreer minded, her clock is ticking and she wants kids, at that age most women want a family and if for some reason they can't it really eats them up. It's that frustration is what is causing the arguments, now after so many unpleasant things have been said the boiling point has been reached and it is hard to see a way out.

If she had posted to this forum telling a story along those lines, 32 years old,12 years together, he won't commit, want kids, constant arguments. My reply would be :-
Stop arguing with him be the best loving girlfriend you can and get pregnant now (accidents happen) you have waited long enough, it's a risk, he might dump you but after 12 years that's unlikely, if the does fall back on your parents. Dad will say " I told you so" mum will be delighted and work on dad, go for it while you still can.

My youngest daughter had the same problem he would not commit, so after 6 years she got pregnant and not until the second child was due did he marry her, they now have 4 kids and a very strong marriage. I have seen many couples wait too long trying to have a perfect family, life ain't like that, never let money get in the way of passion.

As you say you have been taking the lead, making the decisions without enough regard for her and she has rebelled, if she wanted to break up she would have gone long ago, if she did get pregnant all this talk of expensive weddings and holidays would vanish, she would be in "mother mode ", it's a risk for you too but if you want to keep her that will make a big difference.

[HelpDave]

Hi, thank you for your reply, some of your comments I take on board and are very interesting to read. I must say though I don't quite know where the similarities are between me and her dad... If you knew him you would know exactly what I mean, as I said earlier he is a total control freak and her mam is scared to do anything as an individual. I have already said I'm a laid back person who has no issues with whatever my partner wants to do with her own time or with friends whatever it maybe I don't mind. I don't think I take the lead on things, I have never said that? We make decisions together but I am the 1 to organise everything. As far as kids well I would have had kids by now but my partner has not shown much interest until maybe the last 6 months but even then she is not exactly going on about them, I tend to talk more about them. I don't feel I need to be married to have kids, in all honesty I wanted kids first but may partner did not so there is not a lot I can do about that... I kind of understood why she wants us all to have the same name and things & wants her wedding day to be about us which I don't really agree with as I would love my kids there, but anyway.

Obviously you only have to go on what I have wrote, but the thing about me and her dad been the same is so way off the mark... I come from a loving close family so I know good values, appreciation, been equal etc... That's why I said when we first lived together I said we could have a joint account together so she could still do nice things.

This is her dad for you, when she worked for him once which I said was a big mistake to go work for him but I said hey look you do what you want to do it your decision, so she left a secure job to work for her dad who worked out how much he could pay her so that he would not be liable for SSP & things like that. Then because they don't get on 6 mo the later he said you can't work for me anymore because we don't get on, so he just sacked her basically... Then I'm left to support both of us on 1 job, so maybe you can appreciate I've not taken kindly to been compared with her dad.

[Mrconfused74]

Thank you for your messages, I'll try to expand maybe help with some of your questions.

We have lived together for a long time, about 12 years... We have been engaged for about 8 years. I am employed and have a fairly decent job if OT is there to be worked I will work whatever I can.

Maybe this is the problem?? You're working over time when available which is making up your wages, but what time are you spending with her? You say you go out for meals, see friends etc, but how much time do you spend together? Are you tired when you get home, is it quality time together? Perhaps the fact that you work and provide so much doesn't give her the motivation to find and keep a job. Could you do less overtime cut back on the eating out or 'buying whatever you want' to spend quality time together, she may resent the fact you're working a lot, you may resent that she doesn't appreciate what you do for her! Or that you're the main breadwinner. Money isn't the key to happiness, yes it helps but after 12 years maybe she just expects a holiday, even though you're saving for a wedding but doesn't see it. Maybe money isn't what she wants its time with you?

[David020549]

I was not inferring that you were a control freak, you are clearly not, in any relationship one will lead the development of it, that is usually the man and take into account his partners wishes, somewhere along the way it went wrong for you.

There is often no logic or reason why a relationship goes wrong, even after as long as 12 yrs, sometimes it seems a switch has been pressed and it just changes and what ever you do it is never the same.

[HelpDave]

Hi, I am only answering truthfully to your questions. OT does not get in the way of our lives, if/when I generally work over its on a Saturday when she is at work anyway... We still can get out whenever we want, we go through the week on a weekend night, whenever we feel really...

I just want to stress as well money is not an issue... We live comfortably but obviously we don't have an endless supply of it...but we can do what we want when we want to a certain extent...

Just to let you know we have been on holidays regularly... Florida 2 times, Egypt 3 times, Madeira, UK holidays, having nights away so we have done plenty together in my opinion.

David020549 - your last comment maybe be true, you don't know what but something has changed... I have a hard time imagining how she would cope alone, she would not be able to financially manage(I am not money orientated, but you need finances to be able to live independently).

Can you live your life knowing it's not whole??? I feel I have no escape if I did have enough...

[Mrconfused74]

It's great then if you're spending time together but something isn't right and until you find out what I doubt you'll ever feel better. You said you've been on many holidays and she has come to expect that, some sound quite expensive but you can't always do both when paying for a wedding, yet you gave in! Maybe she's just getting to use to spending, and holidays? Does she have much say in the wedding? Or is it yours as you are paying for it? Maybe she feels that she's being shut off from what should be the biggest day of her life? Maybe you've spent so much time going out eating and holidays that whilst you may have been together you haven't actually done anything of quality! When was the last time you say in bed talking? Or went for a walk? Or just drove around looking at the sites? There's being together and there's being a couple! We can only go on what you've said! But to most apart from her not earning as much as you! Which it sounds like you resent, and wanting a holiday when you should be saving for a wedding! Even though you have in and went anyway! Everything seems ok, so maybe the problem isn't her, it's that your not being honest with what's bothering you?

[HelpDave]

Hi again....

She has more say in the wedding than I do really, Im laid back about most things so I go with the flow really unless it's something I'm really bothered about, which can cause problems because she has had her way too much so it's a shock to her when I voice my ideas or desires.

You know I don't resent her not earning as much, not at all. There's has been instances where she could have added an extra days work to her week but she hasn't been bothered so she just says well we are ok I don't need to work an extra day,,, which I would say well no we don't need you to but it would help out every little does and I said it might help her as I think sometimes she gets bored with her free time because she doesn't really do anything constructive apart from shop now and then or meeting her friends... Which I don't mind, I'm not a jealous person.

I'm not blowing my own trumpet here, not at all. But I know people have said to her on many occasions you need to keep hold of him he's a good 1. Which she will tell me that's been said and then she'll say, they are right I need to look after you better or something like that along those lines...

What else could be wrong with me... I thought about talking to someone but I don't know who...

[Mrconfused74]

So from what you've said, nothing is wrong apart from the fact that she wanted to go on holiday when you were paying for a wedding an then paid out £5k on a mortgage deal! Which I don't understand, when I married my ex we paid for everything yet did nothing else that would restrict us financially, we weren't poor we both worked so we did what we wanted with the wedding. There is also the point that you say you are well off, then every little helps, when she gives up the chance to work. I mean why would she if for 12 years you've supported her? She has no reason to change! You could've told her that if she wants an expensive holiday then she would need to work extra and put that money aside for it. To me she's not had to work for anything, she does a few days, then goes shopping or sees friends, while you bring in the money? There is more to this than that. Whether you know it or not something is eating at one or both of you. I'm as laid back as you can be but even I get annoyed and wound up by some things.

[David020549]

Just a thought, if it's not wanting a family that has caused the change, has she decided NOT to have kids and live it up a bit, that would account for her wanting a fancy wedding and honeymoon, You could ask her but you wouldn't get a reliable answer, how does she behave around kids, all cooeee or give them back quickly, what are her girlfriends like.

[HelpDave]

I think the holiday/wedding/mortgage was a catalyst to things happening... Maybe it's taken these more meaningful subjects to highlight that she likes most things her own way. Maybe because of how important these are I thought she might be more understanding & compromising.

Is it to late to save it before the wedding...